"I came back to hit recovery. Recovery is not what I hit"

Jane Doe # 1's mother, whose initials are J. M. testified on during the latter half of the court hearing on Wednesday and for a short time on Thursday. Jane Doe's mother described how her girls came to live with alleged abuser Kufner and the aftermath when she found out about the alleged abuse.

Deputy District Attorney Zach Curtis started his questioning of J.M. by asking her  how many chiildren she had. Her response, "Yeah, five living." The two girls referred to this in case, Jane Doe #1 was born in 2003 and Jane Doe #2, her younger sister in 2005.

Like Jane Doe #1, J.M. remembered the exact date her husband died, March 11, 2011. She was managing a clean and sober house before her husband died. She had the child on weekends for visits since she and her husband were separated. Other places they lived were the Serenity Inn and her cousin's and Oklahoma.

The alleged incidents are to have occurred between a period starting in 2012 and 2013. By April 2012, J.M. said, "I had not dealt with the deaths of 5 people including David (her husband). I came back to hit recover. Recovery is not what I hit."

Kufner lived "down from David's trailer." When they came back from Oklahoma, they lived for a while at Kufner's trailer. J.M. said Kufner did not want her partner around. "He did not want to help a guy."

J.M. said she "had a breakdown around April 30. "I lived in the gutter. I walked for about five months."

"I left them (the girls) with Ed," she said. "He was the maintenance guy, he was their dad's friend. Ed took them skating." She said that Kufner tried to reunite her and the girls "for a couple of months." That was around June 2012. In September 2012, "I got put in Semper Virens and I got my head back." Then she went to a clean and sober house.

"Ed had to reach out for help to CWS," said J.M. She said the court ordered her to take medication. "We still love Ed," she said when asked if this situation was difficult for her. "He saw himself as their dad."

J.M. said that they moved into the MAC Center in July 2013 and that she had lived there "364 days before reunification."

Deputy District Attorney Zach Curtis asked her, "At the MAC, did Jane Doe come to you with allegations about Ed?"

"I have only heard two things, he was touching her when she was asleep and the camping trip," said J.M.

At this point she started crying, she said they did not discuss the case and that she asked Jane Doe, "Why didn't you tell me?"

"I went to my CWS worker, then to law enforcement," said J.M. "I made my snitch phone call. I called Ed. I just remember asking if this was true." She also mentioned SART, the Sexual Abuse Response team.

Mr. Curtis asked her if she would recognize the phone call if she heard it. He also asked her if she was emotional at that time. "I was angry as hell, emotional, no."

Then a few seconds of the phone call was played and it was identified. The jury was given a transcript and they heard the phone call. While listening to this phone call, J.M. started crying on the stand, at some point that morning, she put her head down on the stand.

"I have got a hard question for you," J.M. asked Kufner after exchanging brief pleasantries on this phone call. "Basically, Jane Doe (she said the actual name on the call) said you touched her."

"I, what?" responded Kufner.

"No, I haven't done anything down there, I never touched her."

J.M. then told him all this would come out into counseling. Kufner then admitted that he touched both girls while checking for diaper rash.

J.M. reacted and said, "Both of them? I only heard about Jane Doe. This is the first I heard about Jane Doe #2."

The audio quality was poor at times but Kufner said something about a reaction to bubble bath.

J.M. then said, "As far as Jane Doe #1 goes, it is not about the cream. The way she is talking, it sounds inappropriate."

Kufner was silent, then he said, "I don't know."

J.M. then brought up the camping trip. "She is adamant it was wrong."

Kufner silent again. J.M. asked him, "Are you there?"

Then J.M. asked Kufner, "Why are you sleeping with them"

Kufner's response was because they were camping or they were upset in the middle of the night.

J.M. brought up inappropriate touching the third time and asked Kufner, "What happened to make her think that?"

Again, Kufner is silent, then, he says "Uh...I really don't know."

J.M. said, "Jane Doe # 1 said that you took her clothes off and touched her front. Why would she say that?"

He responded with the same excuse as before and she confronted him, "That is not what I am talking about. I don't think it was putting medication on Jane Doe #1. You can either tell me the fuck what happened" or that she will take it where she needs to and she tells him the answer "you are giving is not meshing with (what was said by) Jane Doe #1."

Kufier denied anything inappropriate happened, he used, "I don't think..."

J.M. responded, "Jane Doe said that you touched her pee pee while she was asleep. Why would she say that?"

"No, No, honest J (used her first name), I don't know," said Kufner.

At this point Kufner was crying, "I did not touch her that way."

J.M. said, "Why would she lie? Why would she have details?" Again, she asked Kufner about the camping trip.

"I will be happy to sit down with you and her and talk about this," said Kufner. He still kept saying he was applying medication.

"Why would you approach her while she was asleep?" asked J.M. "She thought you were lonely."

"It is not about us, " said J.M. "It is about what happened to Jane Doe #1."

"I never slipped my hand inside her," said Kufner.

"She said you rubbed her," said J.M. "Did you do this or not. She said you stayed up until 4 a.m. together."

"No," said Kufner.

"I believe Jane Doe #1," said J.M. "I believe something bad happened."

"She started (wetting the bed) after her dad died, " said J.M. "She wasn't peeing in her pansts when her dad was alive." J.M. said that Jane Doe #1 told her that "she wets the bed because Ed touched her."

Kufner said that he touched them like a father would, "Touching them inappropriately, my God."

After the phone call, J.M. said "some of that was coached, they were handing me slips of paper. The things Jane Doe said I heard from the horse's mouth. The only thing that I heard from Jane Doe #1 was that she was asleep when it happened." This was referring to what she knew at the time of the pretext phone call.

She said that the team in the room with her was slipping pieces of paper with questions to ask about the camping trip, "I was stuck on the diaper rash."

Mr. Casey Russo, who represents Kufner, cross examined J.M. on Thursday. He asked her how Jnae Doe's father died. "He went to sleep, didn't wake up. Apparently, alcohol, methadone, diabetes and sleep apnea don't mix."

Mr. Russo asked her some questions and J.M. responded with how are these questions  "relevant to the cause we talked about?"

Then Mr. Russo asked her bed-wetting and J.M. said Jane Doe wore her diaper throughout the night and added, "I have never had anyone come to this situation with bed wetting issue."

Mr. Russo questioned her about a time when she suspected abuse from a bully in OKlahoma but that did not bring any information about any abuse, just bullying.  J.M. said she didn't tell CASA advocate Laurel Gilkerson about the alleged abuse by Jane Doe's cousin. J.M. denied a statement Mr. Russo said she made to Ms. Gilkerson about Jane Doe acting out. "No, I told her, it caused me to act out."

Then Mr. Russo showed her a report and J.M. said that she did not remember saying it and that Jane Doe #1 some times "acts out" and "I may have made excuses for her. I took the lead from the authorities that were in charge of my life." J.M. denied that she had strange men around her girls, she mentioned one time with two friends. She said she was homeless at times and she did spend the night sometimes in motels when the girls visited her but denied that they were "living in motels" as Mr. Russo claimed in his opening statement. She said she and "weed don't get along" but she has done meth. She said when she spoke to Jane Doe #2, that Jane Doe #2 "doesn;t believe what happened."

This was on cross examination. On redirect, she elaborated on the Jane Doe #2's statement. She said  that she found out on this Wednesday that they were not allowed to talk about the case with each other. Mr. Curtis asked her, "Have you talked about the facts and allegations." J.M. responded, "I don't have facts and I am not going to tell them my imagination."

 "At first, Jane Doe # 2 (she used the real name) thought her sister was lying. She wanted the skating, the toys the dog back. I would not want to stop living at the party either, that is 90% of our problem." By party , She said she meant the skating, the sleepovers, x box, having their own cell phones when they lived with Kufner.